Does this link still work?
On Wed, 16 Jan 2002 07:22:52 GMT, sloan@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Sam Sloan)
wrote:
>You seem to have read every other book on this subject but my book,
>"The Slave Children of Thomas Jefferson". Why the omission?
>
>http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/4906574009/slavesofthomasje
>
>On Mon, 31 Dec 2001 13:21:59 GMT, jalison8@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
>
>>bulldogwaw@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Bulldogwaw) wrote:
>>
>>>:|>From: jalison8@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>:|>Date: 12/29/2001 2:12 PM Eastern Standard Time
>>>:|>Message-id: <ii4s2usa8tv74ai2lp2031qn9uj7ci0t17@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>>>:|
>>>:|>>:| Hate to tell you this, BUT - - - they did some DNA on Sally
Hemmings
>>>:|>progeny,
>>>:|>>:|and there was a match to Jefferson.
>>>:|>
>>>:|
>>>:|>Hate to tell you thus, well actually I don't hate to tell you this
at all. I
>>>:|am aware of the DNA results
>>>:|
>>>:|Oh really?
>>
>>
>>Yep, far more so than you are apparently.
>>
>>>:|
>>>:|
>>>:|>There was a match to "A" male Jefferson.
>>>:|>
>>>:|
>>>:|>The DNA did not come from Thomas Jefferson.
>>>:|
>>>:| Wrong!
>>
>>LOL, are you actually trying to claim they dug up Thomas Jefferson's
>>remains? LOL, you better think about that one before you answer.
>>
>>The DNA for the Jefferson sides was taken from descendants of Field
>>Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson's uncle.
>>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>" There were nineteen subjects, which included five descendants of two
sons
>>of Field Jefferson, three descendants of three sons of the Carr
brothers'
>>grandfather, five descendants of two sons of Thomas Woodson, the alleged
>>first son of Sally, one descendant of Eston Flemings, Sally's last
child,
>>and five control subjects. The blood samples were then hand-carried to
>>England in December 1997 by Dr. Foster, to a laboratory for testing and
>>comparison."
>>(SOURCE OF INFORMATION: The Jefferson-Hemings Myth, An American
Travesty.
>>The Thomas Jefferson Heritage Society. Edited by Eyler Robert Coates,
SR.,
>>Jefferson editions, Charlottesville, Virginia, (2001) p 28)
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>There is a chromosome the "Y" chromosome that remains constant in males
of
>>a same line. It is only passed from generation to generation by males
to
>>males of the same line.
>>
>>Thomas Jefferson had no male children that lived to adulthood. They did
not
>>did up Thomas Jefferson's remains. Nor did they locate and dig up the
>>remains of his one male child that did die young.
>>
>>
>>Instead they used descendants of Field Jefferson who was Thomas
Jefferson's
>>uncle. Field Jefferson would have had the same Y Chromosome as Thomas
>>Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson's Father, Thomas Jefferson's Grandfather,
and
>>the same Y Chromosome as any surviving males in Thomas Jefferson's
direct
>>line of descendants had he had any that survived.
>>
>>DNA testing will not establish paternity beyond one generation with any
>>degree of absolute certainty. It can exclude potential fathers but
cannot
>>identify with absolute certainty a father beyond one generation.
>>
>>The reason being while in males the Y Chromosome would be present
through
>>many generation all other chromosomes change because the mating of a man
>>and woman produces new chromosomes.
>>
>>Example: A paternity test using DNA could pretty well establish that
your
>>son, if you had a son was actually your son, or could prove beyond any
>>doubt that he wasn't, if in fact he wasn't.
>>However, your son matures and has children with a woman. The children of
>>that union would have different DNA than yours, with the exception of
that
>>one Y Chromosome that would be present in any and all male children of
that
>>union.
>>
>>What the DNA tests in the Jefferson-Sally H. situation proved was that
the
>>odds were 1-100 that a Jefferson male was the father of the last of the
>>Sally H. children
>>
>>There were no matches between the Jefferson male line and the Woodson
>>line, that being the Thomas Woodson line. The descendants of Thomas
Woodson
>>have claimed for decades that Thomas Woodson was the male child that was
>>conceived by Sally. H. when she was in France with Thomas Jefferson and
who
>>was born shortly after their return from France. It was this Tom , so
the
>>Woodson oral traditions goes, that James Thomson Callender first wrote
>>about when he wrote about Thomas Jefferson and his mistress slave
September
>>1, 1802., and it was that Tom that was in fact the son of Thomas
Jefferson
>>and Sally H.
>>
>>Well, the results of the DNA doesn't sup****t that. No Y Chromosome
>>consistent with the Jefferson line was found in the Thomas Woodson
>>descendant's blood sample.
>>
>>The Woodson clan had additional samples tested in 2000 with the same
>>results. They have since, as a group, dropped attempts to gain burial
>>rights in the Jefferson cemetery.
>>
>>
>>During the time period that Sally H. was conceiving children the
following
>>lived at or within 20 miles of Monticello, and visited often when Thomas
>>Jefferson was there,
>>They are:
>>Thomas Jefferson
>>Randolph Jefferson (Thomas Jefferson's brother)
>>Five sons of Randolph Jefferson who lived at or near Monticello and at
>>least one male cousin, George (See: The Jefferson-Hemings Myth, An
American
>>Travesty. The Thomas Jefferson Heritage Society. Edited by Eyler Robert
>>Coates, SR., Jefferson editions, Charlottesville, Virginia, (2001) p 40)
>>
>>All of the above would have the exact same Y Chromosome.
>>
>>Jefferson's Uncle, Field Jefferson, had male children, who in turn had
male
>>children. Thus, any or all of those particular Jefferson's, if they ever
>>visited at Monticello would have been potential, "suspects."
>>
>>
>>Thus all the DNA test established was that the odds were 1-100 that one
of
>>the males in the Jefferson line fathered at least the last of Sally
Hemings
>>children. The DNA did not and could not identify which one.
>>
>>
>>To sum it up once more:
>>----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>(1) There was no match between the DNA of descendants of Jefferson and
>>Woodson. This finding was extremely im****tant. It meant that Thomas
>>Jefferson (or any other Jefferson) did not father Thomas Woodson as
stated
>>in Callender's 1802 article.
>>
>>(2) There was no match between the DNA of Woodson, Herrings, and Carr
>>descendants. This meant that neither of the Carr brothers fathered
Thomas
>>Woodson or Eston Herrings. However, it is still conceivable that they
could
>>have fathered one or more of Sally's other children.
>>
>>(3) A match was found between the DNA of descendants of Field Jefferson
and
>>the descendant of Eston Herrings. This only means that any one of the
>>Jefferson men previously mentioned could have fathered Eston Herrings,
but
>>it doesn't indicate which Jefferson.
>>(SOURCE OF INFORAMTION: The Jefferson-Hemings Myth, An American
Travesty.
>>The Thomas Jefferson Heritage Society. Edited by Eyler Robert Coates,
SR.,
>>Jefferson editions, Charlottesville, Virginia, (2001) p 30)
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>:|>Evidence? It must have been so quiet no one knows about it.
>>>:|
>>>:| Funny it seems to have been enough for Jefferson's *white*
descendats to
>>>:|accept the black ones as members of the family.
>>>:|Guess they don't know as much as *you* huh?
>>
>>
>>Your claim was:
>>
>>>Hate to tell you this, BUT - - - they did some DNA on Sally Hemmings
>>>progeny, and there was a match to Jefferson.
>>
>>>A much quieter note they found the samematches with the offspring of
>>>some others of Jefferson's slaves.
>>
>>>So, I would say there is proof now. The Hemmings family has been
welcomed
>>>by the Jeffersons as family. That does it for me.
>>
>>My comment
>>Evidence? It must have been so quiet no one knows about it.
>>was in direct reply to your
>>
>>>A much quieter note they found the samematches with the offspring
>>>of some others of Jefferson's slaves.
>>
>>You still have not supplied any evidence for the above.
>>
>>In addition, acceptance is not universal.
>>
>>>:|
>>>:|>Actually, I don't have a problem with the fact that Sally H. and J
Jefferson
>>>:|might have been involved ***ually, hell even romantically.
>>>:|
>>>:| Neither would I if she had been his wife instead of *slave.*
>>>:|
>>>:|>But, it has not been proven, which was my point.
>>>:|
>>>:| To most of the world it has.
>>
>>"Most of the world" as you call it was duped by the original misleading
>>articles published in 98-99.
>
>Why were the articles misleading??
>
>>Follow up articles published giving the "rest of the story" is
correcting
>>that perception, that is for those interested in knowing. Those
interested
>>in believing the worse will continue to hang their hats on the
>>misrepresentations created with those first articles.
>>
>>>:|>None of the Sally H. descendants have been allowed burial permission
in the
>>>:|Jefferson family cemetery.
>>>:|
>>>:| Don't know if they have integrated the family cemetary, but they
have
>>>:|welcomed the black descendats at family gatherings. You should watch
>>>:|educational TV more.
>>
>>Which is not proof.
>>I prefer to read the work of scholars rather than writers of TV
programming
>>who looks at ratings and drama for audience appeal.
>>
>>Actually I have here and have read all of the following:
>> All of the Anti Jefferson was the father works of the likes of Dumas
>>Malone and other Jefferson scholars.
>>
>>Thomas Jefferson a Intimate History, Fawn M. Brodie (pro Jefferson was
>>father work)
>>
>>A President in the Family, Thomas Jefferson, Sally Hemings, and Thomas
>>Woodson, Byron W. Woodson, Sr. (pro Jefferson was father written by a
>>member of the Woodson clan)
>>
>>
>>Thomas Jefferson and Sally Hemings An American Controversy, Annette
>>Gordon_Reed (a pro Jefferson is the father book)
>>
>>The Jefferson-Hemings Myth, An American Travesty Edited by Eyler
Robert
>>Coates, Sr. (A anti Jefferson is the father works)
>>
>>The last three mentioned works above all take into account the DNA
>>results, address other aspects since 1998 including the so called
>>acceptance by the Jefferson descendants, the Monticello foundation etc.
>>
>>I suggest you get away from education TV and read the actual facts ,
>>results and works by scholars on both sides.
>>
>>>:|
>>>:| There is vastly more than mere speculation to Jefferson regularly
drilling
>>>:|for oil with Hemmings. And has been for almost 200 years.
>>
>> Not really
>>
>>The best that can be said is there is valid evidence on both sides of
the
>>issue. However, the DNA evidence has damaged badly the "he is the
father"
>>crowd.
>
>Very strange statement. The DNA evidence, combined with all the other
>historical evidence, proves conclusively that Thomas Jefferson was the
>father.
>
>>By two separate sets of DNA tests made on descendants of Thomas Woodson
and
>>both sets ruling any Jefferson out as the father of Thomas Woodson, much
of
>>the cir***stantial evidence has been discredited.
>
>What are you talking about? What cir***stantial evidence has been
>discredited?
>
>>There is another Sally Hemings offspring line located. The grave of
William
>>Hemings, son of Madison Hemings, grandson of Sally Hemings has been
located
>>and none of the Hemings defendants seem willing to give permission to
have
>>DNA tests made.
>>
>>Tom - (Woodson) (1790) was suppose to be conceived by Thomas Jefferson
and
>>Sally Hemings in France. DNA ruled this out.
>>
>>Harriett - (1795) died in 1799 Sally Hemings and some believe Thomas
>>Jefferson
>>
>>Beverly- (1798) son of Sally Hemings and some believe Thomas Jefferson
>>
>>Unamed daughter (1799) died in infancy Sally Hemings and some believe
>>Thomas Jefferson
>
>This is just a theory. There is no proof that this child existed.
>>
>>Harriet - (1801) Sally Hemings and some believe Thomas Jefferson
>>
>>Madison - (1805) Sally Hemings and some believe Thomas Jefferson
>>
>>Easton - (1808) Sally Hemings and some believe Thomas Jefferson DNA
proves
>>that there is a 1-100 chance that a male Jefferson did father this child
>>(rather than a random male from outside the Jefferson line) with Sally
H.
>>but cannot show which Jefferson. There were at the very least 8
potential
>>suspects.
>
>Sam Sloan
>http://www.samsloan.com/slaves.htm
>http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/4906574009/slavesofthomasje
|
