On May 27, 6:37=A0pm, jhi...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
> > =A0Higher power is on topic, at least for some of us....
>
> But it's essentially the same thing... true, there is cause and
> effect, the mystery of "why do things exist" since it would seem a lot
> more simple if nothing did...
>
> But because we cannot explain the existence of the universe, or cannot
> explain our own existence doesn't mean we need to invent some kind of
> all powerful sentient supernatural entity to explain it.
Well I agree with that. Religion and culture are pretty close buddies
and what and how people believe is tied to culture, and the way they
experience things.
>
> I do not believe in a "higher power" simply because I have no reason
> to believe it. Some argue that the fact that we exist is enough,
> citing "cause and effect", i.e "the universe exists so something must
> have created it".
Well there are a lot of socalled mysteries here. I sometimes marvel
at both the immensity and simplicy of things... I marvel that there
is anything here at all... i do keep seeking and thinking which is
healthy... and I do enjoy discussing the topic...
>
> But then when asked with the question "what created this something"
> thay make out that this "something" is one, eternal, and infinite. I
> mean, that pretty much describe the universe... think about it:
>
> -> The universe is everything (that we know or will ever know)
>
> -> The universe is eternal (because "before" the universe doesn't make
> sense because time didn't exist, and "after" the universe doesn't make
> sense because time won't exist either).
I am not sure if the universe is eternal... the fact that things
change,
that things make and things break means that everything is headed
towards something... oblivion? or some sort of further synthesis...
>
> -> The universe is infinite. Technically speaking it's not, but since
> the universe is expanding at the speed of light, our current and
> latest understanding of physics seem to indicate that we will never be
> able to get "outside" or even see past this giant "bubble", so we
> can't know if there may or may not be "something else" outside the
> universe.
No I cannot see how it can be infinite, though at first glance it does
seem
immense. Sometimes i gravitate to solipcism...lol...
>
> Unless our universe starts colliding with another one, and unless we
> get a clue to prove otherwise, we can assume there's nothing out
> there.
One day i realised that what we have here- life, etc. will always
exist in
some shape or form...
>
> So if you call all the matter & energy & everything that makes up the
> universe "god", then fine, why not, but then again why not use the
> word "universe" instead?
Hmmmm.... 'higher power' in the 12 step tradition is supposed to be
the pivot around
which our life changes. Some people just keep it simple... well that
is the preferred option...
I find religious doctrine a difficult thing to work healing and
recovery around...
I like tossing round ideas like the existence of nature and the nature
of existence.
>
> If you say that what is called "universe" has been created by
> something else you have explained nothing since that something else
> essentially have the same properties as the universe, and you can't
> explain why that something else exists either, so you're back to
> square one, to the original, unsolvable mystery, which is "why does
> stuff exist" ?
Thye fact that we keep working on the topic is sufficient imo...
and why not kick back and just enjoy what we have here...?
David.
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