"P.R. Vanfleet" <PRVanfleet@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> writes:
> UH i thought this post was about Southern identity?
> The Yorkist/Lancastrian struggle or the war between Cromwell and
> Charles I are European wars and have virtually no bearing on American
> History or on Southern Identity.
> I fail to see how European struggles relate to this topic at all.
Here's what I think.
Katherine says, as I read her, that the reaction you describe may not
be specifically southern, that it may just be human to be annoyed at
being reminded of the devastating defeat of one's community.
An analogy: "Every time I toss a drink in the face of one of these
Pennsylvanians he gets angry and makes trouble for me." I think you
can see that this may not be a specifically Pennsylvanian reaction.
Best wishes,
Hugh
> Katherine Griffis wrote:
> > P.R. Vanfleet wrote:
> >
> > > Interesting.
> > > I have a lot of family in the Deep South and I would maintain that
the
> > > Civil War has left a more noticeable mark on them then any other
group
> > > of people I have met located in any other geographic region. For
> > > instance, every time I have brought up William Sherman around a
> > > 'proud Southerner' I get a similar reaction.. the mention of his
name
> > > gets most riled up and red in the face.. This is for the most part a
> > > Southern issue, as it brings up issues with their own identity. I
would
> > > seriously doubt that an individual from Wyoming, or New Mexico, or
> > > Maine, or Minnesota would have as much emotional attachment to
> > > Sherman's march to the sea.
> >
> > Well, the same could be said about bringing up the term "Dresden" to a
> > German, whether or not he lived through World War II. Obviously the
> > inhabitants of Germany from the WWII era have a stronger emotion
about
> > it (even more if they lived IN Dresden or nearabouts), but even the
> > German of today, in his 30's or younger, will have strong feelings
> > about the bombing of Dresden, even if he doesn't have personal
> > knowledge about WWII itself.
> >
> > One does not even have to _live_ in Germany to have this strong
feeling
> > about Dresden disaster: the strongest memory I have of my
> > German-American mother and Southern father in argument was when he
> > revealed he was part of the bombing group of the USAF which destroyed
> > Dresden. The argument went on for hours, followed by days of silence.
> > My mother never lived in Germany (in fact, never even visited the
> > country), but the incident affected her psyche, but mainly due to its
> > injustice, not due to some "locational/cultural" influence.
> >
> > > > The South is a particular knockaround for anthropologists and
> > > historians, IMO, since they are the only "conquered" section of the
> > > US, <
> > >
> > > So i take it you have never been to a Rez?
> > > All of both North and South America are "conquered"..
> > > Its just the Southern CSA are the only large organized white social
> > > entity to be forced to capitulate to white opponents.
> > > While individuals of European decent fought each other in the French
> > > Indian War, the Revolutionary War, and the War of 1812, the
> > > Confederates were the only 'socially autochthonous whites' to be
> > > defeated and fall under the yoke of the victors.
> >
> > Erm, then what about the English Civil War? War of the Roses? That
> > sort of thing?
> >
> > I think you should consider that _every_ civil war tends to be a
> > situation where 'socially autochthonous groups' are defeated and fall
> > under the yoke of the victors. The US is no different from other
> > European and even non-European counterparts as to the result of a
civil
> > war. A civil war may not pass from the collective memory, but as a
> > rule, a civil war, once completed and in the far past, doesn't affect
> > the modern everyday life of its inhabitants some 100+ years after the
> > fact.
> >
> > > It is just my experience that this incident has left an indelible
mark
> > > on a considerable amount of Americans born in the South.
> >
> > Then all I can say is our experiences differ, but mine is based on
> > continuous living in the Deep South for over 40 years.
> >
> > Katherine Griffis-Greenberg
>
--
Hugh Lawson
hlawson@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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