But in this case would not his defeat be specifically southern?
Hugh Lawson wrote:
> "P.R. Vanfleet" <PRVanfleet@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> writes:
>
> > UH i thought this post was about Southern identity?
> > The Yorkist/Lancastrian struggle or the war between Cromwell and
> > Charles I are European wars and have virtually no bearing on American
> > History or on Southern Identity.
> > I fail to see how European struggles relate to this topic at all.
>
> Here's what I think.
>
> Katherine says, as I read her, that the reaction you describe may not
> be specifically southern, that it may just be human to be annoyed at
> being reminded of the devastating defeat of one's community.
>
> An analogy: "Every time I toss a drink in the face of one of these
> Pennsylvanians he gets angry and makes trouble for me." I think you
> can see that this may not be a specifically Pennsylvanian reaction.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Hugh
>
> > Katherine Griffis wrote:
> > > P.R. Vanfleet wrote:
> > >
> > > > Interesting.
> > > > I have a lot of family in the Deep South and I would maintain that
the
> > > > Civil War has left a more noticeable mark on them then any other
group
> > > > of people I have met located in any other geographic region. For
> > > > instance, every time I have brought up William Sherman around a
> > > > 'proud Southerner' I get a similar reaction.. the mention of his
name
> > > > gets most riled up and red in the face.. This is for the most part
a
> > > > Southern issue, as it brings up issues with their own identity. I
would
> > > > seriously doubt that an individual from Wyoming, or New Mexico, or
> > > > Maine, or Minnesota would have as much emotional attachment to
> > > > Sherman's march to the sea.
> > >
> > > Well, the same could be said about bringing up the term "Dresden" to
a
> > > German, whether or not he lived through World War II. Obviously the
> > > inhabitants of Germany from the WWII era have a stronger emotion
about
> > > it (even more if they lived IN Dresden or nearabouts), but even the
> > > German of today, in his 30's or younger, will have strong feelings
> > > about the bombing of Dresden, even if he doesn't have personal
> > > knowledge about WWII itself.
> > >
> > > One does not even have to _live_ in Germany to have this strong
feeling
> > > about Dresden disaster: the strongest memory I have of my
> > > German-American mother and Southern father in argument was when he
> > > revealed he was part of the bombing group of the USAF which
destroyed
> > > Dresden. The argument went on for hours, followed by days of
silence.
> > > My mother never lived in Germany (in fact, never even visited the
> > > country), but the incident affected her psyche, but mainly due to
its
> > > injustice, not due to some "locational/cultural" influence.
> > >
> > > > > The South is a particular knockaround for anthropologists and
> > > > historians, IMO, since they are the only "conquered" section of
the
> > > > US, <
> > > >
> > > > So i take it you have never been to a Rez?
> > > > All of both North and South America are "conquered"..
> > > > Its just the Southern CSA are the only large organized white
social
> > > > entity to be forced to capitulate to white opponents.
> > > > While individuals of European decent fought each other in the
French
> > > > Indian War, the Revolutionary War, and the War of 1812, the
> > > > Confederates were the only 'socially autochthonous whites' to be
> > > > defeated and fall under the yoke of the victors.
> > >
> > > Erm, then what about the English Civil War? War of the Roses? That
> > > sort of thing?
> > >
> > > I think you should consider that _every_ civil war tends to be a
> > > situation where 'socially autochthonous groups' are defeated and
fall
> > > under the yoke of the victors. The US is no different from other
> > > European and even non-European counterparts as to the result of a
civil
> > > war. A civil war may not pass from the collective memory, but as a
> > > rule, a civil war, once completed and in the far past, doesn't
affect
> > > the modern everyday life of its inhabitants some 100+ years after
the
> > > fact.
> > >
> > > > It is just my experience that this incident has left an indelible
mark
> > > > on a considerable amount of Americans born in the South.
> > >
> > > Then all I can say is our experiences differ, but mine is based on
> > > continuous living in the Deep South for over 40 years.
> > >
> > > Katherine Griffis-Greenberg
> >
>
> --
> Hugh Lawson
> hlawson@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
|
