On Jul 7, 4:51 pm, Rich Rostrom <rrostrom.21stcent...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> "Mike stone" <mwst...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> >> > The senior English nobleman with any sort of royal connection who
is
> >> > fighting with the two English regiments fighting in the Low
Countries
>
> >> > will return home at the head of his troops (plus any others who
fancy getting
> >> > very rich very quickly), declare himself king and blow the Romans
away.
>
> >> Unless Lord Mountjoy in Ireland beats him to it. Mountjoy is a 2G
> >grandson
> >> of Thomas Grey, 1st Marquess of Dorset, who was a half-brother of
both
> >> Edward V and
> >> [Elizabeth I's grandmother Elizabeth of York]. That might strengthen
his
> >> claim
> >> as much as [being the son of Henry VI's half-brother] helped Henry
VII.
>
> >How about Philip III of Spain? He was an indisputably legitimate
descendant
> >of John of Gaunt, and whatever Christian population Britannia had at
the
> >time of the Event would probably think of itself as "Catholic". rather
than
> >Protestant.
>
> >Does the Kinsale expedition of 1601 go to Britannia instead, either on
> >Philip's own behalf or maybe his sister Isabella's? Could anyone else
> >intervene in time?
>
> 1) Roman troops are not going to wet
> their pants and flee en masse just
> because some barbarian fires off a
> boomstick.
>
> A handful of clumsy smoothbore
> matchlocks will not be decisive against
> well-trained infantry with steel
> weapons, bows and arrows, and horses.
>
> Cortez defeated the Aztecs, who did
> not have any of the above, with the
> aid of large numbers of local allies,
> while the Aztec state was being decimated
> or worse by Euro diseases - and it was
> still a struggle.
This is pu****ng it. The Romans do not
have THAT much more tech than the
Aztecs and they are much, much closer
than the New World was with Cortez and
both France and Spain are immediately
going to scramble to take over Britain.
Both the French, the Spanish, and the
Dutch are all going to sail in, tell the
Romans that 'They are Gods' in Latin
and prove it by aiming sticks at the
local Roman military commanders and
their possibly newly proclaimed emperor
and make them drop dead at the press
of a button.
This period of time is only 12 years after
the defeat of the Spanish Armada but
it is before the 30 Years War, when Spain
basically exhausted most of its resources
in the conflict and France became more
powerful than Spain on the continent as
a result.
By far, however, the most powerful Protestant
power has disappeared from the face of the
map, to be replaced by a few primitive pagans
no more powerful than the Aztecs. Clearly it
is a sign from God. He has wiped the evil
heretics and their foul witch queen from the
from the face of the earth, never to return.
Spain and France will make short work of
the few Protestants left over in the Netherlands
and Germany.
Nonetheless, Spain has a far flung world
Empire. France outnumbers Spain in
population over 2 to 1 and has similar tech.
Furthermore, France is ruled by a former
Huguenot king who converted to Roman
Catholocism to become King of France,
but who generally sup****ted religious liberty.
Probably, the net result is going to be
that France is going to immediately
throw everything it has into the conquest
and colonization of the very near Aztec-like
Britain to try to compensate for its lack of
a world empire in comparison with Spain,
and the Netherlands, are probably going
to convert to Roman Catholicism, but at
the same time, are going to become
immediate complete and total allies of
France to compensate for the power deficit
due to the disappearance of Elizabethan
England.
Probably, the reaction from many of
the regions in Germany are going to
be mixed, however the net result will
be clear. France and Spain are going
to slug it out in a rematch of the wars
in the 1520s, and most of Europe is
probably going to sup****t France
simply because they recognize that
Spain has a far flung world empire
and no other state in Europe has that,
and the strongest naval power in
Europe after the defeat of the Spanish
Armada, has simply, disappeared off
the face of the Earth, never to be seen
again.
> Britannia has a veteran Legion and
> probably a fair number of auxiliaries
> in place. (On the Pictish border, in
> Siluria, and making sure the Britons
> get no silly notions.) Any filibusters
> will be seen off quickly.
Get a life. Bang, bang. The Roman
commander is dead. Anyone in
Roman Britain who does not claim
that either the King of France or the
King of Spain is their legitimate
ruler is going to be snuffed out
quicker than ...
> 2) Given the shocking and extraordinary
> nature of the ISOT event, would anyone
> be seriously debating the relative
> merits of obscure Tudor relatives' claims?
> The Kingdom of England is _gone_. There's
> nothing to fight over. One might as well
> claim the Kingdom of Jerusalem, or the
> succession to the Byzantine Empire.
Except for a moderate sized plot of
land, filled with primitives, much of
which could be deeded to a lot of
French farmers after a very short
journey. Of course, a lot of it has
no gold. That is a severe drawback.
>
> 3) With the disappearance of England, the
> English position in Ireland collapses.
> Besides the material effect, the moral
> effect of knowing that the homeland is
> gone and will never send any further
> sup****t would be decisive.
>
> Hugh O'Neill sweeps the board, and may
> even declare himself Ard Righ. He may
> not even need Spanish help, though he
> probably gets some.
I would guess that the Irish would be
pro-Spanish and anti-French. They
would not be in as an ideal condition
to try to take over Roman Britain in
comparison with France and the
Netherlands, and so would probably
sup****t the Spanish in order to try
to keep the French out.
>
> 4) Once the crowns of Europe know what has
> happened, there will be embassies and
> missions to Britannia.
Bah. Their pagans. They have no souls
in Christ. They will be conquered like the
Aztecs. End of story. The question is,
who will conquer them? France or Spain?
> But conquest will
> not be considered for a good while. If
> Britannia rejects all Christian missions
> and remains flagrantly pagan, there might
> be a Crusade of sorts.
Too much self interest on the part of all of
the European powers to wait for them to
seem to reject Christianity before invading.
Probably some of them would have converted
anyway. But probably only the pope would
be an advocate of peaceful conversion, and
that would only be after Spain, France, and
the Netherlands had already invaded and
a vast number of colonists had migrated over.
> Might: there are
> much worse infidels, actual enemies of
> Christ, all over the Med and Balkans, and
> no one is "crusading" against them any more.
The Spanish war against the Ottoman Turks
was only shortly before the Spanish Armada
was sent against England.
When all is said and done, however, I really
wouldn't count out the 100AD population
of Britain as much as the Aztecs or the
Incas.
Their basic advantage, however, is that
the Aztecs did not have competing
conquistadores from different European
nation-states fighting each other almost
immediately after conquest.
Probably, however, it seems almost
impossible that is not going to happen
with this Roman Britain. Once the
Roman Legions train themselves in
the construction and use of matchlocks
and cannon about half of them are going
to be fighting for France and the other
half for Spain.
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