On Jul 9, 3:47 pm, Jack Linthi*** <jacklinthi...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> On Jul 8, 9:24 am, "William Black" <william.bl...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > "Rich Rostrom" <rrostrom.21stcent...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>
>
>news:rrostrom.21stcentury-30FC57.18515807072008@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> > > 1) Roman troops are not going to wet
> > > their pants and flee en masse just
> > > because some barbarian fires off a
> > > boomstick.
>
> > > A handful of clumsy smoothbore
> > > matchlocks will not be decisive against
> > > well-trained infantry with steel
> > > weapons, bows and arrows, and horses.
>
> > Oh yes they are.
>
> > A single smoothbore musket fired isn't the problem, the five or six
hu=
ndred
> > of them in a regiment being fired together will.
>
> > The things will penetrate a late medieval plate harness at two hundred
> > yards, it'll make interesting iron origami from Roman armour.
>
> > Of course a single musketeer can't hit anything much at 200 yards,
but=
five
> > hundred men letting fly with a volley will do serious damage.
>
> > The Romans had serious problems with pike armed troops anyway. Pike
ar=
med
> > troops with musket and cannon are almost certainly beyond their
abiliti=
es to
> > engage, never mind defeat them.
>
> > Cavalry of the period with a carbine, two pistols and a sword,
wearin=
g
> > leather and steel and trained to trot into contact are a problem as
wel=
l.
> > The Romans have nothing except their pillums to keep them away, and
th=
ey're
> > not long enough and not designed for hand-to-hand fighting.
>
> > Roman discipline may hold, but their technology is just outclassed.
>
> > --
> > William Black
>
> > I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
> > Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
> > I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough
gat=
e
> > All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
> > Time for tea.
>
> http://www.online-literature.com/ga-henty/by-englands-aid-or-the-free...
>
> "Chapter XXI. The Battle of Nieu****t
>
> "Fortunately the same storm scattered and destroyed the great Spanish
> fleet at Ferrol, and the weather thus for the second time saved
> England from invasion. Late in the autumn, after his return from the
> expedition, Sir Francis Vere went over to Holland, and by his advice
> Prince Maurice prepared in December to attack a force of 4000 Spanish
> infantry and 600 cavalry, which, under the command of the Count of
> Varras, had gathered at the village of Turnhout, twenty miles from
> Breda.
>
> A force of 5000 foot and 800 horse were secretly assembled at
> Gertruydenberg. Sir Francis Vere brought an English regiment, and
> personally commanded one of the two troops into which the English
> cavalry was divided. Sir Robert Sidney came with 300 of the English
> garrison at Flu****ng, and Sir Alexander Murray with a Scotch regiment.
> The expedition started on the 23d of January, 1598, and after marching
> twenty-four miles reached the village of Rivels, three miles from
> Turnhout, two hours after dark.
>
> <snip>
>
> . Vere with two hundred Dutch musketeers advanced against the bridge;
> his musketry fire drove off the guard, and with a few mounted officers
> and the two hundred musketeers he set out in pursuit. He saw that the
> enemy's infantry were marching but slowly, and guessed that they were
> delayed by the baggage wagons in front.
>
> The country was wooded, and he threw the musketeers among the trees
> with orders to keep up a dropping fire, while he himself with sixteen
> horsemen followed closely upon the enemy along the road. Their rear
> guard kept up a skirmi****ng fire, slightly wounding Vere in the leg;
> but all this caused delay, and it was three hours before they emerged
> on an open heath, three miles from the bridge. Vere placed his
> musketeers among some woods and enclosed fields on the left of the
> heath, and ordered them to keep up a brisk fire and to show themselves
> as if advancing to the attack. He himself, reinforced by some more
> horsemen who had come up, continued to follow in the open.
>
> The heath was three miles across, and Vere, constantly skirmi****ng
> with the Spanish infantry, who were formed in four solid squares, kept
> watching for the appearance of Maurice and the cavalry. At length
> these came in sight. Vere galloped up to the prince, and urged that a
> charge should be made at once. The prince assented. Vere, with the
> English cavalry, charged down upon the rear of the squares, while
> Hohenlohe swept down with the Dutch cavalry upon their flanks. The
> Spanish musketeers fired and at once fled, and the cavalry dashed in
> among the squares of pikemen and broke them.
>
> <snip>
> The success was gained entirely by the eight hundred allied horse, the
> infantry never arriving upon the field. The brilliant little victory,
> which was one of the first gained by the allies in the open field, was
> the cause of great rejoicings. Not only were the Spaniards no longer
> invincible, but they had been routed by a force but one- sixth of
> their own number, and the battle showed how greatly the individual
> prowess of the two peoples had changed during the progress of the war.
>
> <snip>
>
> In the course of 1599 there was severe fighting on the swampy island
> between the rivers Waal and Maas, known as the Bommel Waat, and a
> fresh attempt at invasion by the Spaniards was repulsed with heavy
> loss, Sir Francis Vere and the English troops taking a leading part in
> the operations.
>
> <snip>
>
> . However, their opinions were overruled, and the expedition prepared.
> It consisted of 12,000 infantry, 1600 cavalry, and 10 guns. It was
> formed into three divisions. The van, 4500 strong, including 1600
> English veterans, was commanded by Sir Francis Vere; the second
> division by Count Everard Solms; the rear division by Count Ernest of
> Nassau; while Count Louis Gunther of Nassau was in command of the
> cavalry. The army embarked at Flu****ng, and landed at Philippine, a
> town at the head of the Braakeman inlet."
>
> Literature Network =BB G. A. Henty =BB By England's Aid or The Freeing
of
> the Netherlands (1585-1604) =BB Chapter XXI. The Battle of Nieu****t
>
> This is very choppy but is in illustration as to the number and
> quality of English troops in the Netherlands in the era of 1600. I
> wonder if the Romans had ever been subjected to flanking fire of any
> kind, let alone musketry.
The other side, http://www.culturalresources.com/Romleg.html
In the 2nd century A.D. there were 3 legions in Britain, .... Roman
legions defended the imperial frontiers from the Scottish border to
the deserts of Arabia, from the Danube to the Atlas mountains in
northern Africa.
There were c.28 legions, with an average strength of 5000, each made
up of 10 cohorts of c.500 men. Cohorts were divided into 6 centuries,
each numbering c.80 men under the command of a centurion. Almost all
infantry troops were recruited from the citizenry. (Generally, 100 to
200 of the troops were cavalrymen.) Auxiliary units of colonial troops
drawn from the provinces backed up the legions. The auxiliary
soldiers, who drew less than half the pay of the legionaries, were
granted citizen****p on their discharge.
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