On Jul 7, 1:49 pm, jgarbuz <jgar...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> On Jul 7, 5:54 am, David Hume <chazwy...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jul 7, 12:46 am, "Truth Will Out" <Truthwillout@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> > wrote:
>
> > > "jgarbuz" <jgar...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>
> >
>news:e2e8b5b4-45d5-4f42-a9dc-1132d2635f73@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > 1948, ISRAEL, AND THE PALESTINIANS =96=96 THE TRUE STORY
>
> > > NONE of the rubbish you posted is truth.
>
> > > It is no more than zionist lies.
>
> > Simple facts
>
> > 1) Before 1948 there had been no Jewish state in the region since
> > before the time of emperor Hadrian, and then only a client state of
> > the Roman Empire.<
>
> True. That doesn't mean it ceased to be Jewish land.
Sadly the same can be said of Palestinians who have bee dispossessed.
Many tribal lands
> are conquered by large empires, but have gotten their independence
> since.
And far more have not.
The major difference between the Jewish case and that of most
> other small conquered peoples, is that the Jews went into exile but
> managed to preserve their identity and never gave up their claim to
> their homeland,
And neither have the American Indians or Maori - to name but two.
and indeed enshrined it as the second major part of
> its tribal religion. Also, thanks to the Jewish legal system, they
> managed to even prosper in exile in many cases. But with most other
> cases, the locals were either assimilated or killed off or both. In
> America, the remnants of many native "Indian" nations languish in
> miniscule parts of their ancient land we call "reservations" and some
> only prosper slightly due to gambling and no cigarette taxes.
>
> > 2) The Jews had originally stolen the land from the indigenous
> > inhabitants after their trek from Egypt.<
>
> The Canaanites, who preceded the Hebrews by some 1,000 years, had
> destroyed the earlier inhabitants before them. They too were not
> indigenous.
So tel me does that justify that Palestine is a Jewish "tribal land" -
I think not.
To me "indigenous" means the FIRST or EARLIEST people who
> had inhabited the land. Neither the Canaanites, Hebrews nor Arabs fit
> that bill. And the Canaanites were a collection of city states often
> warring with each other, and often under Egyptian or Hittite rule. In
> fact, Abraham bought his burial lands from Hittites.
> But the Canaanites practiced infanticide, a fact that was confirmed by
> archaeology both in Israel, and especially in Carethage (North Africa)
> where many of the Canaanites fled to create that powerful ancient city
> state.
>
> > 3) After the fall of the Ottoman Empire WW1 the British held the
> > "mandate" over Palestine, <
>
> The British defeated the Ottomans, who had aligned themselves with the
> German and Austro-HUmgarian empires, and as such, Britain had the
> right to do as it wished with the conquered lands of the Ottoman
> empire.
Then why did the Jews not respect that right and upset the
negotiations by taking the law into their own hands?
But the League of Nations was created in 1919, and it was
> decided to return the land to the Jewish people while giving non-Jews
> full civic and religious rights in what was intended to become the
> Jewish National Home.
The League of Nations had no Internationally recognized legal right to
do that, as it excluded from its number all the opposing interests in
this matter.
The Mandate to administer Palestine was given to
> Britain, for the purpose of helping resurrect the Jewish homeland.
Now you are contradicting yourself (above).
But
> immediately upon this, eastern Palestine was turned into an Arab
> state, under the rule of an emir from Mecca, Abdullah, and was renamed
> Transjordan. So that larger part of Palestine was taken away from
> Jewish settlement, and given to the Arabs to rule.
>
> >and with the holocaust in mind was seeking
> > ways to peacefully establish a homeland for Jews.<
>
> YOu mean right after WWI, in 1920, the European powers already
> anticipated the rise of Hitler and the genocide of the Jews of Europe?
> Arab nonsense. Talk about historical revisionism.
No, you dolt! - I am talking about the Jews throwing away any chance
of a peacful settlement by taking Israel by force with terrorism. 1948
>
> > However....
> > 4) A Jewish terrorist organisation took the law into its own hands and
> > seized the land from the Palestinians, on the eve of the ending of the
> > mandate.<
>
> Total ahistorical bull****.
I think you owe it to yourself to read the history of this moment, as
you are sorely confused.
Quote wiki:
After 1945 the United Kingdom became embroiled in an increasingly
violent conflict with the Jews.[49] In 1947, the British government
withdrew from commitment to the Mandate of Palestine, stating it was
unable to arrive at a solution acceptable to both Arabs and Jews.[50]
The newly-created United Nations approved the UN Partition Plan
(United Nations General Assembly Resolution 181) on November 29, 1947,
dividing the country into two states, one Arab and one Jewish.
Jerusalem was to be designated an international city =96 a corpus
separatum =96 administered by the UN to avoid conflict over its status.
[51] The Jewish community accepted the plan,[52] but the Arab League
and Arab Higher Committee rejected it.[53]
Regardless, the State of Israel was proclaimed on May 14, 1948, one
day before the expiry of the British Mandate for Palestine.[54]
This shows that Jews disregarded the mandate and the plan for peace
and took matters into its own hands to impose a Jewish state even
though Jews only represented 33% of the population, despite massive
attempts to swamp the land with immigrants to increase it from 11% in
1922.
The land was alloted to become the Jewish
> homeland again, but the terrorist Arab leader****p, mainly under the
> rule of the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin el Husseini, started a
> campaign of terror and "resistance" from 1920 onwards, as soon as the
> League had decided in favor of the Jews.
The League held no legal credibility. Never did.
But just before WWII began,
> when Britain decided to reverse its policy, in order to keep oil
> supplies flowing from Iraq to Haifa, and closed Palestine to Jewish
> immigration,
Lie: Jewish population rose from 11% to 33% from 1922 to 1945.
only then did some underground Jews start their own
> program of resistance and terror - two decades after the Mufti had
> already done so.
As Palestine was 89% Arab one would imagine that the Arabs had every
right to resist British rule. In fat they had more right to do so than
the Jews who were still a minority long after 1948. You can't justify
Jews' terrorism of the 1940s and condemn Arabic terrorism of the 1920
and 30s
>
> > 5) In parallel with so-called "scholars" in South Africa who once
> > insisted that the whiteman was there before the Bantu, similarly,
> > Jewish "scholars" try to tell similar stories to justify the Jewish
> > "right" over the lands of Palestine. We should pay no more attention
> > to them than is deserved by holocaust deniers.<
>
> There is zero evidence of any caucasian settlement or control of South
> Africa before the Dutch arrived.
Yes, but the "scholars" of apartheid claimed that there were no blacks
there either.
By contrast, there is not a shred of
> Arabic to be found in the Land of Israel prior to the Arab conquests
> of the 7th century. There is an enormous amount of evidence of Hebrew
> and Jewish presence long before Muhammad was even born.
I have to say - so ****ing what! The progenitors of Moslims were there
before Mohammed, just as the Caananites were there before the Jews.
The entire claim of the Jews is based on a fantasy of a land promised
by a fantasy being.
>
> > 6) Until these simple facts are recognised there will be no peace in
> > the ME.<
>
> Until 56 Muslim states, and the world at large, fully recognizes and
> respects Jewish rights to ancient Jewish lands, there will be no peace
> in the ME.
This will never happen as too much blood has been split. When the US
fades as a world power the Jewish state will fall to the Arabs once
again.
I give them 100 years max.
Until the Jews learn; that taking land by force is not a solution;
dispossessing its inhabitants without compensation does not make
friends; being a minority army of occupation is no better than
naziism; the meaning of humility; their days in the ME are numbered.
>
> > The Jews' claim to the region back dates to pre -135 AD, but even at
> > the height of its power its claim was always tenuous existing as a
> > army of occupation to the various other populations that were there.<
>
> Nonsense. Total utter rubbish. Roman and then Arab imperialism may
> have occupied our homeland for long stretches of time, but thank God,
> and some good Christian zionists who helped the Jewish struggle
> immensely, some of the Jewish homeland is back in its historical,
> legal homeland.
It is not a homeland. It is not legal.
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